Multi-trait - multi-site model
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Multi-trait - multi-site model



I am trying to run a multi-site, multi-trait familymodel.  I have what I 
think are to equivalent parameterisations, however I come up with slightly 
different results.
below is the .AS. file, with the two models, one and two:

Dunnii combined analyses - 2 sites
 site 2 REP 6 Block 11 Prov 19 Family 220 Seed TREE DBH98 HT98
 DBH981 !=V1 !==1 !*V8 !M 0
 DBH982 !=V1 !==2 !*V8 !M 0
 HT981  !=V1 !==1 !*V9 !M 0
 HT982  !=V1 !==2 !*V9 !M 0
Dun_GE.DAT !skip 1 !MAXIT 30 !DOPART $A
!PART 1
! Between Site Bivariate
DBH98 HT98 ~ Trait Trait.site Trait.site.REP Trait.site.Prov !r 
Trait.site.Family !f mv
2 2 1 !step 0.01
5280 0 IDEN !S2==1
Trait 0 US 5.7 3.7 3.6
5280 0 IDEN !S2==1
Trait 0 US 3.3 2.2 1.6
Trait.site.Family 2
Trait.site 0 CORR 0.47 0.88 0.43 0.48 0.97 0.5 0.44 0.41 0.476 0.21
Family 0 IDEN

!PART 2
! between site Bivariate
DBH981 DBH982 HT981 HT982  ~ mu Trait.REP Trait.Prov !r Trait.Family !f mv
1 2 1 !step 0.01
0 0 IDEN
Trait 0 US 5.7 0 3.3 3.7 0 3.6 0 2.2 0 1.6 !GUFUUFUFUFU
Trait.Family 2
Trait 0 CORR 0.4 0.9 0.38 0.48 0.97 0.5 0.44 0.34 0.46 0.22
Family 0 IDEN

the results from model 1 are:

  ASREML [ 1 Jul 1999]  Dunnii combined analyses - 2 sites 
 12 Jul 1999 21:49:15.478  64.00 Mbyte    DUN
 QUALIFIERS: !skip 1 !MAXIT 30 !DOPART 4
  Reading Dun_GE.DAT  FREE FORMAT skipping  1  lines
 ! Between Site Bivariate 
 Bivariate analysis of DBH98                and HT98
 Using    10560 records [of   10560 read from   10560 lines of Dun_GE.DAT 
         ]
  Model term      Size Type    COL   Minimum    Mean      Maximum   #zero 
#miss
   1 site            2 Factor    1      1     1.5000          2         0 
    0
   2 REP             6 Factor    2      1     3.5000          6         0 
    0
   3 Block          11 Factor    3      1     6.0000         11         0 
    0
   4 Prov           19 Factor    4      1     9.3182         19         0 
    0
   5 Family        220 Factor    5      1   110.5000        220         0 
    0
   6 Seed            1 Covariat  6  1.000      110.5      220.0         0 
    0
   7 TREE            1 Covariat  7  1.000      2.500      4.000         0 
    0
   8 DBH98           1 Variate   8  1.000      7.112      17.40         0 
 1616
   9 HT98            1 Variate   9  1.500      7.706      18.60         0 
 1396
  10 DBH981          1 Covariat 10  2.500      9.958      17.40         0 
 6210
  11 DBH982          1 Covariat 11  1.000      4.417      11.40         0 
 5966
  12 HT981           1 Covariat 12  3.900      11.39      18.60         0 
 6220
  13 HT982           1 Covariat 13  1.500      4.389      9.700         0 
 5736
  14 Trait           2 Traits/Variat
  15 Trait.site      4 Interaction 14 Trait   :    2    1 site           : 
   2
  16 site.REP       12 Interaction  1 site    :    2    2 REP            : 
   6
  17 Trait.site.R   24 Interaction 14 Trait   :    2   16 site.REP       : 
  12
  18 site.Prov      38 Interaction  1 site    :    2    4 Prov           : 
  19
  19 Trait.site.P   76 Interaction 14 Trait   :    2   18 site.Prov      : 
  38
  20 site.Family   440 Interaction  1 site    :    2    5 Family         : 
 220
  21 Trait.site.F  880 Interaction 14 Trait   :    2   20 site.Family    : 
 440
  22 mv_estimates 3012 Missing value
  5280  identity
     2  US=UnStr    5.70    3.70    3.60
   10560 records assumed sorted    2 within 5280
   10560 units in section   1; initial variance  1.0000
  5280  identity
     2  US=UnStr    3.30    2.20    1.60
   10560 records assumed sorted    2 within 5280
   10560 units in section   2; initial variance  1.0000
     4  CORRelat    0.47    0.88    0.43    0.48    0.97    0.50    0.44 
   0.41
    0.48    0.21
   220  identity
 Structure of Trait.site.F has     880 levels defined
  Forming  3999  equations:  107  dense
 Initial updates will be shrunk by factor    0.010
 NOTICE:  3038 (more) singularities,
 LogL=-13956.4     S2=  1.0000      21040 df    1.000      5.700      3.700 
    3.600      1.000      3.300      2.200      1.600     0.4700     0.8800 
   0.4300     0.4800     0.9700     0.5000     0.4400     0.4100     0.4760 
   0.2100
...
 Final parameter values                        1.0000     5.6725     3.6825 
   3.5977     1.0000     2.9963     1.8869     1.4147    0.45086    0.87853 
  0.41097    0.47504    0.97053    0.49009    0.44346    0.43495    0.46642 
  0.21331

 Source                Model  terms     Gamma     Component    Comp/SE   % 
C
 Residual              21120  21040
 Residual            US=UnStr     1   5.67255       5.67255      45.42   0 
U
 Residual            US=UnStr     1   3.68246       3.68246      40.57   0 
U
 Residual            US=UnStr     2   3.59767       3.59767      45.39   0 
U
 Residual            US=UnStr     1   2.99635       2.99635      47.36   0 
U
 Residual            US=UnStr     1   1.88694       1.88694      44.79   0 
U
 Residual            US=UnStr     2   1.41467       1.41467      47.71   0 
U
 Trait.site.Family   CORRelat     4  0.450861      0.450861       4.99   0 
U
 Trait.site.Family   CORRelat     4  0.878530      0.878530      32.40   0 
U
 Trait.site.Family   CORRelat     4  0.410971      0.410971       4.91   0 
U
 Trait.site.Family   CORRelat     4  0.475040      0.475040       5.37   0 
U
 Trait.site.Family   CORRelat     4  0.970529      0.970529     145.12   0 
U
 Trait.site.Family   CORRelat     4  0.490085      0.490085       6.25   0 
U
 Trait.site.Family   CORRelat     4  0.443462      0.443462       6.08   0 
U
 Trait.site.Family   CORRelat     4  0.434953      0.434953       7.65   0 
U
 Trait.site.Family   CORRelat     4  0.466420      0.466420       7.22   0 
U
 Trait.site.Family   CORRelat     4  0.213314      0.213314       7.74   0 
U
 Covariance/Variance/Correlation Matrix US=UnStructu
  5.673     0.8152
  3.682      3.598
 Covariance/Variance/Correlation Matrix US=UnStructu
  2.996     0.9165
  1.887      1.415
 Covariance/Variance/Correlation Matrix CORRelation
 0.4435     0.4509     0.8785     0.4750
 0.1980     0.4350     0.4110     0.9705
 0.3996     0.1851     0.4664     0.4901
 0.1461     0.2956     0.1546     0.2133

 Analysis of Variance       DF     F-incr      F-adj  StndErrDiff
  14 Trait                   2   17829.63    2581.90
  15 Trait.site              2    9598.88    1149.92
  17 Trait.site.REP         20     126.74     126.65
  19 Trait.site.Prov        56       1.97       1.97

the results from model two are:
  ASREML [ 1 Jul 1999]  Dunnii combined analyses - 2 sites 
 12 Jul 1999 21:38:44.010  64.00 Mbyte    DUN
 QUALIFIERS: !skip 1 !MAXIT 30 !DOPART 7
  Reading Dun_GE.DAT  FREE FORMAT skipping  1  lines
 ! between site Bivariate 
Multivariate analysis of DBH981         DBH982         HT981          HT982 
         t.Family    mv
 Using    10560 records [of   10560 read from   10560 lines of Dun_GE.DAT 
         ]
  Model term      Size Type    COL   Minimum    Mean      Maximum   #zero 
#miss
   1 site            2 Factor    1      1     1.5000          2         0 
    0
   2 REP             6 Factor    2      1     3.5000          6         0 
    0
   3 Block          11 Factor    3      1     6.0000         11         0 
    0
   4 Prov           19 Factor    4      1     9.3182         19         0 
    0
   5 Family        220 Factor    5      1   110.5000        220         0 
    0
   6 Seed            1 Covariat  6  1.000      110.5      220.0         0 
    0
   7 TREE            1 Covariat  7  1.000      2.500      4.000         0 
    0
   8 DBH98           1 Covariat  8  1.000      7.112      17.40         0 
 1616
   9 HT98            1 Covariat  9  1.500      7.706      18.60         0 
 1396
  10 DBH981          1 Variate  10  2.500      9.958      17.40         0 
 6210
  11 DBH982          1 Variate  11  1.000      4.417      11.40         0 
 5966
  12 HT981           1 Variate  12  3.900      11.39      18.60         0 
 6220
  13 HT982           1 Variate  13  1.500      4.389      9.700         0 
 5736
  14 mu              4 Traits/Variat
  15 Trait           4 Traits/Variat
  16 Trait.REP      24 Interaction 15 Trait   :    4    2 REP            : 
   6
  17 Trait.Prov     76 Interaction 15 Trait   :    4    4 Prov           : 
  19
  18 Trait.Family  880 Interaction 15 Trait   :    4    5 Family         : 
 220
  19 mv_estimat  24132 Missing value
 10560  identity
     4  US=UnStr    5.70    0.00    3.30    3.70    0.00    3.60    0.00 
   2.20
    0.00    1.60
   42240 records assumed sorted    4 within10560
     4  CORRelat    0.40    0.90    0.38    0.48    0.97    0.50    0.44 
   0.34
    0.46    0.22
   220  identity
 Structure of Trait.Family has     880 levels defined
  Forming  25117  equations:  105  dense
 Initial updates will be shrunk by factor    0.010
 NOTICE: 24156 (more) singularities,
 LogL=-13981.7     S2=  1.0000      42160 df    1.000      5.700      0.000 
    3.300      3.700      0.000      3.600      0.000      2.200      0.000 
    1.600     0.4000     0.9000     0.3800     0.4800     0.9700     0.5000 
   0.4400     0.3400     0.4600     0.2200
.....
 Final parameter values                        1.0000     5.6726     0.0000 
   3.7022     3.6825     0.0000     3.5977     0.0000     2.2249     0.0000 
   1.5551    0.46927    0.87855    0.42817    0.48155    0.97079    0.49728 
  0.44342    0.40871    0.46639    0.20660

 Source                Model  terms     Gamma     Component    Comp/SE   % 
C
 Residual            US=UnStr     1   5.67256       5.67256      45.42   0 
U
 Residual            US=UnStr     1   0.00000       0.00000       0.00   0 
F
 Residual            US=UnStr     2   3.70223       3.70223      47.30   0 
U
 Residual            US=UnStr     1   3.68246       3.68246      40.57   0 
U
 Residual            US=UnStr     2   0.00000       0.00000       0.00   0 
F
 Residual            US=UnStr     3   3.59768       3.59768      45.39   0 
U
 Residual            US=UnStr     1   0.00000       0.00000       0.00   0 
F
 Residual            US=UnStr     2   2.22486       2.22486      45.95   0 
U
 Residual            US=UnStr     3   0.00000       0.00000       0.00   0 
F
 Residual            US=UnStr     4   1.55505       1.55505      47.99   0 
U
 Trait.Family        CORRelat     4  0.469273      0.469273       5.03   0 
U
 Trait.Family        CORRelat     4  0.878553      0.878553      32.40   0 
U
 Trait.Family        CORRelat     4  0.428171      0.428171       4.96   0 
U
 Trait.Family        CORRelat     4  0.481549      0.481549       5.37   0 
U
 Trait.Family        CORRelat     4  0.970790      0.970790     138.38   0 
U
 Trait.Family        CORRelat     4  0.497284      0.497284       6.25   0 
U
 Trait.Family        CORRelat     4  0.443421      0.443421       6.08   0 
U
 Trait.Family        CORRelat     4  0.408711      0.408711       7.11   0 
U
 Trait.Family        CORRelat     4  0.466387      0.466387       7.22   0 
U
 Trait.Family        CORRelat     4  0.206596      0.206596       7.50   0 
U
 Covariance/Variance/Correlation Matrix US=UnStructu
  5.673      0.000     0.8152      0.000
  0.000      3.702      0.000     0.9273
  3.682      0.000      3.598      0.000
  0.000      2.225      0.000      1.555
 Covariance/Variance/Correlation Matrix CORRelation
 0.4434     0.4693     0.8786     0.4815
 0.1998     0.4087     0.4282     0.9708
 0.3995     0.1869     0.4664     0.4973
 0.1458     0.2821     0.1544     0.2066

 Analysis of Variance       DF     F-incr      F-adj  StndErrDiff
  14 mu                      4   13906.61    1601.05
  16 Trait.REP              20     123.51     123.42
  17 Trait.Prov             56       1.97       1.97
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