Re: error structure in bivariate models with ASReml3

Dear Anne.

First, let me advise everyone reading this that I will not be reading my
email after 28 Dec until after 5 Feb.

Now,
The problem will be related to !MVREMOVE although I suspect you have not
given us the full story because I can't see how a problem arises
with the model you have specified.

ASReml 1 did less verification, and so is likely just not to have
detected the problem.

You have 3742 records, and you say 3130 have LD, AD and SEX.

But ASReml is using 7365 (not 6260) records so maybe you are
using !ASUV (which is why you would also need !S2==1)
and ASReml is therefor ignoring records with SEX unknown,
and individual observations missing.

You may be able to wrk out exactly what is happening by looking at the
data summary, noting where the missing values are.

Anyway, I suggest you try a job like

Bivariate with missing
  SEX * !Dv *
  LD !Dv *
  AD !Dv *
LDAD.dat

AD LD ~ Trait Trait.SEX
1 2 0
0
Trait 0 US
3 * 0

!Dv * should discard the records with missing values in the particular
trait.

This job should then report that it is using 3130 records (in the data
summary) and analyse those records.

Best wishes for Christmas and the New Year.

On Tue, 2009-12-22 at 09:50 +0100, Anne CHARMANTIER wrote:
> Dear Brian and Arthur,
>
>
>
> I am running into problems trying to run simple bivariate models and
> wonder whether it is because it is the first time I am using ASReml3.
> This is a study of 3742 records of laying date (LD) and arrival date
> from migration (AD). We have some missing records, but 3130 records
> with LD, AD and sex known (we are using MVREMOVE to restrict to these
> records).
>
>
>
> Here is the simple first model we are trying to run.
>
> - With ASReml1, I would have used the following syntax:
>
>
>
> #############################################################
>
>
>
> AD LD ~ Trait Trait.SEX
>
>
>
> 1 2 0
>
> 0
>
> Trait 0 US
>
> 3 * 0
>
>
>
> - Using the new ASReml3, we have used your user guide to rewrite the
> code as (although the guide says the previous is equivalent):
>
> AD LD ~ Trait Trait.SEX
>
>
>
> 1 2 0
>
> 0 0 ID
>
> Trait 0 US
>
> 3 * 0
>
>
>
> Running both these models with ASReml2, we get the conclusion error
> message of “structures are wrong size”. The intermediate message is:
>
> Error structures imply 7364 data cells but the data has 7365
>
> Fault 1 Error structures are wrong size
>
> Running them with ASReml3, we get an error message with unfinished
> sentence:
>
> “Warning: Dropped records were not evenly distributed across the”.
>
> I have a feeling this could be linked to the redundancy in residual
> variances that appeared with ASReml2, that we dealt with using !
> S2==1, but here iterations do not even start..
>
>
>
> Best wishes for Christmas and the New Year to all ASReml users,
>
> Anne
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it and notify the sender. Views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, and are not necessarily the views of their organisation.
>
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-- 
Best Wishes,
Arthur Gilmour
Adjunct Professor
School of Computing and Mathematics
Charles Sturt University
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