Re: positive LogL

From: Arunas Verbyla <ari.verbyla_at_ADELAIDE.EDU.AU>
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:34:21 +1030

My understanding of GLMMs in ASReml is they are based on Schall's (1991) method
which is simply based on a linearisation and hence the first two moments. There
is no log-likelihood and ASReml uses an approach simply to fit in with the LMM
software available. Thus Bruce's quote from Arthur confirms that the LogL
printed is simply a mechanism to monitor convergence (of a pseudo-likelihood).
The question of model selection is therefore completely an open one (in the
Schall context).

I believe the long-term aim is to provide an alternaive GLMM approach.


Quoting Bruce Southey <>:

> Hi,
> Positive LogLs happen and are expected!
> The use of the LogL in GLM's has been previously addressed on this list. One
> of Arthur's explanations was:
> "The LogL value reported by ASReml is for the analysis of the working
> variable. As this working variable changes between iterations and especially
> between models, the LogL values are not comparable - even to confirm
> convergence of a particular model."
> Regards
> Bruce
> ---- Original message ----
> >Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 15:09:09 -0500
> >From: Agus Susanto <asusanto_at_UOGUELPH.CA>
> >Subject: positive LogL
> >
> >Dear ASReml-ers,/
> >/I run the following model for categorical data:
> >lsw !POISSON ~ mu grp parity !r animal ide(animal)
> >On the output I had positive LogL and a Warning: The LogL value is
> >unsuitable for comparing GLM models. Can somebody please help me
> >explain the case.
> >Thanks.
> >//
> >
> >--
> >Agus Susanto
> >Department of Animal and Poultry Science
> >Centre for Genetic Improvement of Livestock
> >University of Guelph, Guelph, Ontario, Canada N1G 2W1
> >Rm.128, Phone (519) 824-4120 X-58353

Professor Ari Verbyla
School of Agriculture, Food and Wine, The University of Adelaide
Statistical Bioinformatics - Agribusiness, CMIS, CSIRO
Phone: +61 8 8303 6760 or 8769
Fax:   +61 8 8303 6761 or 8763
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Received on Mon Nov 29 2006 - 08:34:21 EST

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