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*To*: asreml@chiswick.anprod.CSIRO.AU*Subject*: true blup*From*: Uilson V Lopes <wilsonvl@grove.ufl.edu>*Date*: Sun, 17 May 1998 18:59:50 -0400 (EDT)*Cc*: Uilson V Lopes <wilsonvl@grove.ufl.edu>*Comments*: SAA07215 on willow (hop 0), Sun, 17 May 1998 18:59:50 -0400 (EDT)*In-Reply-To*: <199805132216.IAA16339@ornsun.agric.nsw.gov.au>*Sender*: owner-asreml

Hi Asremlers, I was trying to obtain "TRUE" BLUP with asreml and I got some results I did not expect. I tried three types of analysis using as priors estimates of variance components obtained from another software: a) maxit=0 (analysis 1, below); b) maxit=1000, but using the option !GF (analysis 2); and c) I used as priors my variance components divided by the error variance component (5.387632/6.155146=0.8753078 and 6.155146/6.155146=1.0) and the option !GF. In analysis 1, asreml fails to converge, does not print the "estimated" variance components and the solutions for animals are different from those obtained with MTDFREML for true BLUP. In analysis 2, my priors are different from the estimates for variance components, but are equal to the gammas. Also, the solutions for animals in analysis 2 are different from those obtained by MTDFREML and those obtained in analysis 1. In Analysis 3, the estimated variance components are close to those obtained with the other software. Also, here the solutions for animals are the same as those obtained with MTDFREML. After these results, I tried a fourth type of analysis (analysis 4, below). I used 5.387632 and 6.155146 as priors (assuming these are the best priors I could have) and the option maxit=1000. Now, asreml does not converge and does not print the variance components estimates; but prints the solutions for animals. Questions: 1. Which analysis should be used to obtain blup without estimating variance components ("true BLUP")? 2. What are priors for areml: the gammas or the variance components? 3. What is the meaning of the Sources of variation: "Variance"and "Residual"? Note here that when I used(results not shown): x1 ~ mu test test/blk !r anim 5.387632 1 1 0 0 0 IDEN 0 the source of variation "Residual"does not appear in my results in the file FN.asr Thanks. Sorry the long message. Uilson Lopes ANALYSIS 1 FN.as ---------------------- Simulated data test 4 # blk 15 # anim 915 !P male female x1 /home/uvl/HUBER/ped.dat /home/uvl/HUBER/dial.dat !maxit 0 x1 ~ mu test test/blk !r anim 5.387632 # !GF 1 1 0 0 0 IDEN 6.155146 # !GF FN.asr------- Logliklihood decreased to -.46E+04: Trying again with reduced updates Fault 0 Convergence Failed Final parameter values 59.26395 1.00000********** Finished: Sun May 17 17:23:38 1998 Convergence Failed FN.sln ----------------------- anim 10 2.851 1.114 anim 11 -2.006 1.118 anim 12 -1.223 1.107 ANALYSIS 2 FN.as ------------------------- /home/uvl/HUBER/dial.dat !maxit 1000 x1 ~ mu test test/blk !r anim 5.387632 !GF 1 1 0 0 0 IDEN 6.155146 !GF FN.asr --------- Source Model terms Gamma Component Compnt/StndErr anim 915 915 5.38763 12.7216 20.49 Variance 900 840 1.00000 2.36126 20.49 Residual identity 900 6.15515 14.5339 20.49 Finished: Fri May 15 10:42:52 1998 LogL Converged FN.sln -------------- anim 10 2.906 1.663 anim 11 -2.049 1.666 anim 12 -1.243 1.658 ANALYSIS 3 FN.as ------------------------- /home/uvl/HUBER/dial.dat !maxit 1000 x1 ~ mu test test/blk !r anim 0.8753078 !GF 1 1 0 0 0 IDEN 1.0 !GF FN.asr --------- Source Model terms Gamma Component Compnt/StndErr anim 915 915 0.875308 5.32896 20.49 Variance 900 840 1.00000 6.08810 20.49 Residual identity 900 1.00000 6.08810 20.49 Finished: Sun May 17 18:10:37 1998 LogL Converged FN.sln -------------- anim 10 2.850 1.109 anim 11 -2.005 1.113 anim 12 -1.223 1.102 ANALYSIS 4 FN.as ----------------- /home/uvl/HUBER/dial.dat !maxit 1000 x1 ~ mu test test/blk !r anim 5.387632 # !GF 1 1 0 0 0 IDEN 6.155146 # !GF FN.asr --------------------- Logliklihood decreased to -.46E+04: Trying again with reduced updates Finished: Fri May 15 11:06:29 1998 Convergence Failed FN.sln -------------- anim 10 2.906 1.663 anim 11 -2.049 1.666 anim 12 -1.243 1.658

**References**:**Re: Your Message Sent on Tue, 12 May 1998 12:13:35 +1100***From:*Arthur Gilmour <gilmoua@ornsun.agric.nsw.gov.au>

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